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Desteni – What is & What Isn’t
  1. “Desteni group-think mentality is embodied by a New-Age-style slogan: ‘Oneness & Equality’.”
  2. “The group’s doctrine is considered the incomparable, ultimate truth. “
  3. Individual autonomy is seen as insignificant in relation to the so-called principle of ‘Equal & One’ and ‘Equal Money’.”
  4. “Yet, the financial records of Desteni are not made public. It is, after all, a privately owned, for-profit business, and a hierarchical dictatorship.
  5. “Members regularly report their thoughts, experiences, feelings and emotions about themselves and their relationships to the leadership.”
  6. “If they visit the Desteni farm in South Africa, they will be expected to work for no pay on the premise that this will help them to live ‘in the physical’. “
  7. “They are discouraged from spending time on entertainment. “
  8. The length of time they sleep is dictated by Poolman.”
  9. “They are told they must not be vegetarian because vegetarians want to think they’re better than everyone else.”
  10. “Desteni members must shave their heads and not use cosmetics or deodorants. “
  11. “There is a constant focus on breath and the 4-count stress-reduction breath-control technique, which they are told will help ‘stop the mind’ and stop thinking. ‘Stopping the mind’ is one of the most common procedures found in cults.
  12. “Poolman and his core-group encourage Desteni followers to feel guilt and doubt about sex and masturbation, and to identify all their thoughts, feelings, sexual desires, experiences, and their own individual sexuality itself with the Desteni ‘process’. Influence over, and control of, followers’ sex lives is par for the course in the thought-reform cult business. “
  13. Individual goals or interests become superseded by working for the group.”
  14. “Desteni members are constantly consuming, distributing, and manufacturing Desteni propaganda.”
  15. The world outside Desteni is regarded as ‘the Matrix’, where society is seen as over-run with ‘organic robots’ controlled by ‘mind consciousness systems’.”
  16. Bernard Poolman’s Desteni is a centralized regime, run as a dictatorship, which advocates strictly regimented economic, industrial, and social controls.”
  17. “It suppresses free speech and forcibly attempts to censor criticism and opposition.”
  18.  “Its extensive use of propaganda utilizes democratic procedures for an anti-democratic cause.”
  19. Destonians condemn non-Destonians as less-than-inferior beings.
  20. “Bernard Poolman’s comments on Jewish people suggest he is anti-Semitic. And Desteni is a fascist organisation”
  21. “Its devotees say Desteni is all about equality and like nothing that has ever existed before. But Desteni uses the same exploitative methods of mind control found in mystical, religious, or quasi-religious thought-reform cults, and is a hierarchal organization, not a collective of equals. “
  22. “Poolman puts his own spin on it all and employs a less traditional phraseology, which his acolytes slavishly copy and repeat. “
  23.  “The Desteni group say Poolman and Sunette Spies possess abilities to function in both the interdimensional and the physical realms. They say Poolman is somehow not an individual or a personality. He is said to exist Here, bringing together Heaven and Earth in the physical, as if he were the incarnation of the Hermetic maxim, ‘as above, so below’. “
  24. Desteni is a cult
  25. Desteni tells their members to abandon their family
  26. About the expenses of Desteni farm, saying they are high and that Desteni makes theirown food, and wonders why. “where are these expenses? Why are these expenses so high? Like let’s see what’s their cost, and why is a free society that they want to create, but this free society costs an awful lot of money –it’s not making too much sense.
  27. “ there was somebody else within the group that’s reporting that Poolman goes to bed every night with at least 3 women -don’t know if that’s true or not. Having the conversation. It would be nice ifsomebody from Desteni sort of has the conversation.”
  28. “but I’ve always questioned – why is love such an evil thing to you?. “
  29. Some of it might be not truthful information,but the point is – why are people saying anything negative about a positive group? There always is a cause to why people start saying negative things, and in order to find truth, find out the cause of why people start saying negative things in the first place – something must be wrong.
  30. “Desteni is wrong, we have free choice to decide what kind of music, pictures, and information’s we prefer to affect our senses. “
  31. “Desteni aks to give up our own understandings and blindly accept and obey all what Bernard Poolman sais.”
  32. “Desteni members are in it for the money.”
  33. “Desteni is defensive and lashes out at those who challenge them.”
  34. Destonians have faith in numbers and stand as one voice because they are to weak and depend on the direction of Bernard and Desteni. “
  35. “I see to much pride and ego in Destonians.”
  36. People who don’t fit in are discarded out of the group.”
  37. “we should be pro-active in changing our world, but not spend our every breath obsessed with ‘the cause’. Kinda defeats the purpose of ‘being here’ and actually enjoying life when your psychoanalyzing yourself to infinity. So you won’t be ‘living in the mind’, but you are through a focused fixation, while your limiting yourself to any growth to new ideas, other than what’s being fed to you by Desteni.
  38. “I’m sure the Desteni members would be a little more socially active amongst the location
    around them…,[South Africa] than be held up in such a disclosed spot.”

1. “Desteni group-think mentality is embodied by a New-Age-style slogan: ‘Oneness & Equality’.“

Did you ever taken the time to read or hear what we mean with Oneness and Equality? Oneness is who we are on this planet, we are connected with each other through the system and when we interact. What a person does influences another. Even though many would love to, we cannot live in a seperate bubble disconnected from everything else. Even sitting in a house all day doing nothing still has as much effect as anything else. When I buy something, it has an impact somewhere else .
Also the way we function, within our mind, is the same. It may have different outflows and connections yes, but there are similar core patterns. How we get shaped and programmed or formed or whatever you want to call it.  So the way we exist, in this “oneness” right now, is in inequality, separation and abuse. Look around in the world and there is your proof. Look inside your mind and your thoughts during the day about yourself and others, and there is your proof as well. You either accept it , take the easy way out and say “thats just human”, or you take responsibility.

Equality has to be lived to be real. We are equals in fact but don’t live it at all. We create judgements to separate ourselves from each other, where we place the one above the other, deprive a group and raise up another.

Equality and Oneness is not just a slogan we use, it is not just something that sounds nice or which makes people feel good like many spiritual slogans. Forming judgements to soon will mislead anyone, because you already have your eyes and ears closed from the start.

2. “The group’s doctrine is considered the incomparable, ultimate truth.

What we share is the truth of the world, in facts that all can see. For example about the mind and the money system, the way it works, how abuse is maintained, why charity alone does not end the abuse, why some people become criminals, what spite does, why we become jealous, what the effects are etc… Do your own investigation.
The tools we use are not “the ultimate truth” it has nothing to do with that. It are tools to change yourself and take responsibility and see within yourself  who you have become and why. And the point we stand by is “what is best for all”. It has nothing to do with “hey this is the ultimate truth”. But being self-honest, will reveal your ultimate truth to yourself. Because self-honesty is fully seeing who you are and what you have become and why. And no one can do this for you.

3. “Individual autonomy is seen as insignificant in relation to the so-called principle of ‘Equal & One’ and ‘Equal Money’.

Some people like to think about their “individual autonomy”.
You can see in our various blogs and vlogs how Destonians all do different things, have different hobbies or preferences, but we also have many shared things. What is behind what we do , is the same, and that is : self-honesty and directing our lives to create a change. And if someones so called “individuality” abuses others, then yes it should not be allowed. Or wuold you argue that child molestation should be allowed? Or racism? If someones “autonomy” doesn’t abuse, then no problem. If you want to paint, dance, ski or sing, do it and enjoy it. But the point is, to beself honesty in what you do.

We are serious about what we are doing, we are serious about wanting to end the abuse in this world. This is not a little game. So we put our effort into creating the change. I rather put my effort in that, then for example to live a selfish life of shopping and consumerism, obeying to the status quo.

How can we even speak of our autonomy if we have been raised as economic life stock? Shaped and formed by a specific culture and surroundings. Only being self-honest will reveal your autonomy. We are now limited by the way we get programmed in this system, while we could be much more than what we are right now. We put ourselves into little boxes. Our system makes money on insecurities, so boxes are pretty handy for it. Just check a random magazine.

4.“Yet, the financial records of Desteni are not made public. It is, after all, a privately owned, for-profit business, and a hierarchical dictatorship. It is not a shared investment scheme or a charity, and not a collective endeavor between equals where financial dealings are made transparent to all. “

Is the financial records of your family or bank open to you or made public? I don’t know a charity that has open record either. Also there have been charities who put the money in their own pocket, even bankers. What we do with our money will be clear anyway, with what we stand for in the future. We do not use our money to live a life of self-intrest. We are using our money to create a change, to bring together people that care and will work together to make this happen. Haters like to pick out points, just to present it in a way so it looks like we have evil plans, so it looks like we are a fraud.
They should also look at the fraud of this system then, the manipulation to sell, all the corrupt bankers and businesses.

What we do is a collective endeavor between equals.
We plan on using money to change things. This will be the fastest way considering our current system and the size of our planet and the way things are working right now. We will have to use money and we are not afraid to use our money to create the change.

5.“Members regularly report their thoughts, experiences, feelings and emotions about themselves and their relationships to the leadership.”
We report this to the WORLD! Dont you ever report your thoughts, experiences, feelings and emotions about yourself? Or people that visit psychiatrists to talk about their issues.
The people in Desteni, also those you call the leaders, are there to assist. If someone wants to talk about what they experience to receive some assistance, then there is nothing wrong with that. I would encourage everyone to share more with each other. We have become so disconnected and isolated and afraid of each other. Having so many secrets in our mind and not actually communicating. Just hovering over the surface in fear of being hurt. We bottle things up, or hide things because we are ashamed or don’t want anyone to see the truth of who we have become.
I say: let’s share! And let’s finally take responsebility for what dwells inside of us!
This will be needed to change things, and to really be able to trust each other.

6.” If they visit the Desteni farm in South Africa, they will be expected to work for no pay on the premise that this will help them to live ‘in the physical’.

I visited Desteni farm, and I didn’t work at all. Actually I wish I should have, because I like it. But I didn’t and no one said anything about it + everything was payed for me. I did nit have to pay a single thing.
However that is not possible anymore. We all depend on money in this system and you simply cant keep paying for visitors. We are standing for a new system, that will require many things to change the current one which we will also need money for. But in this haters video it acts as if Desteni gathers people to work for them as slaves lol.
As I said before, we are serious about changing things and we are not a charity organisation since charity has never stopped world abuse. Charity sees the NEED but it does not see the ROOT. Many people are starting to realise this, and see that many charities keep popping up, but abuse just continues. Like a never ending circle, trying to sweep away the water while the tab is wide open.
Try to open a bed and breakfast without asking for money, you will soon have to close the entire thing.

And btw, working with the physical DOES help you to “ground yourself”. I notice this when I work in the garden and with our chickens. I love it.

7. “They are discouraged from spending time on entertainment. “

Not true, many members actually love to watch  movies and give suggestion to each other, or go dancing or whatever. What we do STOP, is being pre-occupied with entertainment and lazyness. This is part of being self honest and living as what you would like to see changed on this planet. We are serious about what we want to do, thus we don’t waste our time watching tv all day.
As if it is a crime that we do not spend our time on entertainment all the time. OMG!

I am part of a dance group, sometimes I watch tv or go watch a movie etc… But I will never let it stand in the way of creating the change that is required in this world. That has my priority, by my choice. And the same goes for the rest of the Destonians. We are not a hobby group.

8. “The length of time they sleep is dictated by Poolman.”

Thats a lie. There has been talks about sleeping only 6 hours yes, and also the added comment to: test this out for yourself!
It is not an obligation or something. You have to find out yourself, in self honesty. I sometimes sleep  9 hours and other days I sleep only 5. I sleep as long as I require to and when I wake up and I am awake, I jump out of my bed, thats it. I don’t go calculate it. I often go to bed at 10 and already wake up at 4 am.
haters just jump to conclusions very easily on the limited info they have. Like they would rather have people spend lazy time in their bed not wanting to get up, than people who actually want to give direction to their life and face themselves in all aspects. Who dont just take things for granted or go with the flow. But who explore life and who they have become.

9. “They are told they must not be vegetarian because vegetarians want to think they’re better than everyone else.”

If you are a vegetarian to think your better than another, then you got a problem and I suggest to indeed stop that. Because the starting point is dishonest, and to do a self honesty check.
I eat vegetarian myself, because I can and my body functions well on it. I have for about 9 years now. I did so because I do not want to support the animal factory farming industry, same as I do not want to support the animal testing industry etc… The point is that all things are alive, and for animal abuse to end, we will have to stop this system, else it will never end! People will keep being brainwashed to consume certain foods, animals will still be bread for profit, or be seen as inferior objects etc… That is why our focus is on changing this system. Else, the abuse simply wont end. And that is why vegetarians, should defenetly join us in creating a true change to really end animal suffering.

10. “Desteni members must shave their heads and not use cosmetics or deodorants. “

We are not TOLD that. It is a matter of self honesty. There are members with hair, members who shaved their head. But people who assume will draw conclusions very early without even research long enough to see that some have long hair. Also this should not be an issue in the first place. The “why” of the shaved heads is explained in all the various videos. It is not something we do because we are afraid to be outcasted or something. Shaving my hair was a huge step for me and one of the best ones I took ever. Also, many make up is tested on animals, has chemicals in them, many deodorants have chemicals in them, many shit that damages the human body and is also pollutive for the water or environment. I have long time ago decided not to use that shit. By using my own common sense, not because I was ordered.

the people within desteni who shave their head, do so because they decided this for themselves. They talk about “pressure being put on someone to do something against their will, and that by that your will is being subverted.”
I shaved my head with my own will. People confused their programmed mind with their real will. Do you really think it is your own individual true self will when you put on make up, or clothing to look sexy, or a hairstyle to distinguish yourself from others? Everything is programmed, and you can see this by looking at your own thoughts towards your looks for example, and also the various cultures in this world who  have different standards.  Your will is already subverted but because this shaping happens since you were a baby, you wont recognize it as such.

I had placed many attachment on my hair . From when I was a little girl, people commented how beautiful it was. I have curly hair, and when I was younger it was even more curlier. Funny thing is, that when I was 3 I cut it all off secretly and when my family saw they were shocked. As if I lost a part of myself or something. But they just wanted to show me off to others to ssay: look what a beautiful offspring I have, look at our genes. I obviously didn’t care then because I cut it, without thinking much, I just did it lol.  Over the years I grew up in this western culture where there is much attention placed on beauty, and needing to look attractive to others. At first I went along with it, and I wanted to be pretty to everyone. I bought many clothing to fit in the image and put on my make up every single day. I coloured my hair many many times, I straightened it, curled it, put it up. I even put on fake tan at a point or lay in the sun to be nice a brown which was in style back then. I was totally pre occupied with my worries about what other people thought about me, and based my self worth on wether others found me pretty or not. When someone would not find me pretty it could really devastate me, as if my arm got amputated or something. And I see this conditioning going back to when I was so young and my family reacting shocked to me cutting off my hair. Like a form of rejection, like I had in fact amputated an arm.

So I carried that along into my life and followed it blindly. Until I decided : no more. And yes this was with the help of the destonians. I didn’t dare it for months, thought about it a  lot but just didn’t see a way in which I would ever be able to do such a thing. I imagined the reactions of my family and strangers, when i would go to school or my student job, when i would walk on the street or go to family gatherings. Everything flashed through my head and major fear came up. But when I did it, the fear went away because there was no turning back and I was so happy I did it. I had no choice but to face it which I was actually happy for. And believe it or not, I like it like this even.  Only a few people in the family really freaked out and this was my grandmothers. Especially one of them gave a reaction of pure rejection. The one who showed me around when I was a little girl, to show how pretty I was to people. Also she has been indoctrinated in a catholic village where woman have to look a certain way and everyone gossips a lot and knows each other. She even said she was ashamed of me and couldn’t look at me.
So I did it to make a stand for equality and also for myself. Proving that I can be stronger than my fear, proving it to myself. That I can let go of my self intrest ego for the common good. Because this is what I want in the world, and I say “be the change you want to see in the world”, so the first step is that I start to really live this saying. Lots of people say it but don’t do anything, and I don’t want to be like that. It is to fake.
Desteni didn’t force me, yes they made me face my own attachments and fears, but they never banned me for example because I didn’t shave it at first.  Also, what is best: people who hold you a prisoner of your programmed self, or people who push you to be more then what you think you can be?
To me, the answer is very clear.

This isnot a matter of “natural” or not, like being pointed at in that specific  video. People who make comments to us to just let our hair grow and be natural, have a misconception about why we do this.
We don’t think we should follow nature blindly. And if you care so much about that, you should stop using every unnatural thing. And what is unnatural anyway, since all things come from the earth? But anyway, if you care about that so much you should stop using all make up, stop shaving any part of your body, stop using deodorants, stop driving a car or a bicycle, stop putting on the heating in your house etc….

People tend to react to us, and automaticly reply, without even investigating why we do what we do.
And thats one of the haters main problems.
11. “There is a constant focus on breath and the 4-count stress-reduction breath-control technique, which they are told will help ‘stop the mind’. ‘Stopping the mind’ is one of the most common procedures found in cults.

In cults? You mean all around the world. Yoga classes, budhist, other new age spiritual shit, meditation etc.. And many more things that I cant think about right now.  Even my friend who has bowel problems is being trained some breathing and “mind emptying” techniques which help her bowels to calm down.
The point of the breath is to be aware of yourself, and not be lost somewhere in your imagination. We still think, how do you think we study in university? We use our brains.
The point is to not think as your programmed mind and follow that, but to become your own self direction in self honesty.

With “thinking” as the mind, we mean: following blindly the way your programmed, not being self-honest within what you do or say.

We encourage people to use their brain, to think about who they are and this world and why things are as they are. To investigate this world and ourselves we require to use our brain and educate ourselves. That is what desteni encourages and that is also why so many topics are addressed. Topics that people have interest in, or follow because of desires and fears, so they may realize for themselves why they do so and what the effect of it is.

Thinking as self-direction, is you directing yourself using your brain.If something pops up automatically for
example, in your mind, you do not blindly follow it but direct yourself.Thinking as the mind, would be to blindly follow it, or follow judgments that have been programmed within you.

Because obviously, when our brainfunction rots, we are fucked. Then you are braindead

12. “Poolman and his core-group encourage Desteni followers to feel guilt and doubt about sex and masturbation, and to identify all their thoughts, feelings, sexual desires, experiences, and their own individual sexuality itself with the Desteni ‘process’. Influence over, and control of, followers’ sex lives is par for the course in the thought-reform cult business. “

Guilt and doubt about masturbation? What is shared  is simply the way sex and masturbation work in this world and how the system makes it into an obsessions. Sex sells, and people are programmed extensively with all kinds of sex related things. No need to feel guilty, simply be self honest, and do what you would want to see done in the entire world. Also you make sex as if it is such as big deal. Like you cant talk about it and that its crazy that it is mentioned in the Desteni process. Like omg people talk about sex together! People expose their sexual habbits! OH NO. If you do it, then take responsebility for it.
Sex is part of many humans experience in this world same as fighting and eating. So it is dealt with, like all the hundreds of topics we deal with. Sex is one of the many. And we spend lots of attention on things that are very present. Such as sex, it is an issue we have to talk about and deal with. So ofcourse this will be talked about by Desteni, sex is everywhere! We gotta take responsebility for ourselves on all levels.
What you do with it, is up to you and your self honesty.

13. “Individual goals or interests become superseded by working for the group.”

Actually, my interest is another world where all abuse ends. This is also one of the groups goals.  We stand as one strong group to change things and we are serious about that. We are not gonna go like “oh im now gonna take a 3 year trip around the globe, the world can wait, see ya”. We work together, do whats needed, and we don’t let self intrest stand in the way. Because that has become really the disease of our world. People who just don’t give a shit anymore and rather defend their right to sit hours infront of the tv every day, than to take responsibility. And then turning our working as a group into something negative, like it suppresses us. It doesn’t.
I do not support any goals that abuse life within me, I do not allow any self-intrest to be placed above the common good.
And everyone should look at what individual goals they have, and why they have them and if they are abusive or creating separation.
Everything always comes down to self honesty.

14. “Desteni members are constantly consuming, distributing, and manufacturing Desteni propaganda.”

We are all part of Desteni, we ofcourse share what we have found valuable within Desteni and the material we produce ourselves. To find people who care, people who are not totally blindfolded, people who still can use their own brains. OFCOURSE we share these videos, about the world, what is going on, about the mind and all its facets. It are simply things everyone should wake up to. I guess some haters may like it much more if people would watch reality tv or their favourite soap, as long as it is not something “from Desteni”.

God forbid, that we share what has assisted us so grately!

When I see cool quotes, I quote it, or repeat it. I don’t care. Only people with ego problems have problems with that in some way. Because it is not special enough, to repeat anothers words. I don’t care, if words are true, and if I like a quote and it is the way it is, I will repeat it. We always repeat something, thats how language works. Thats why you hold certain beliefs or opinions based on your culture. So many cultural things we repeat blindly.

And to add to that: most things in do place in my own words, because when I write, I keep writing I rarely stop. Making this video and the text is very easy for me because I know what to say because it is what I live and so I don’t have to go and search for info.

15. “The world outside Desteni is regarded as ‘the Matrix’, where society is seen as over-run with ‘organic robots’ controlled by ‘mind consciousness systems’.”

Our world is a matrix, we are all part of it wether you like it or not. We function like organic robots, following the program of our culture and system and all influences. Common this is really easy to see. I don’t have to explain this because it is way to obvious and has been exposed in hundreds of videos. We even get this taught in school, the only difference is that in school no one does anything with it. When we learn about how the human mind functions for example, socialisation, being shaped and followed your programmed mind. People tend to accept it as “thats the way it just is”. Because we have never been shown what it means to be self honest. We are programmed to follow, to obey and to not question. It is deeply ingrained in us. And up to each one of us to snap out of it.

16. “Bernard Poolman’s Desteni is a centralized regime, run as a dictatorship, which advocates strictly regimented economic, industrial, and social controls.”

Bernard himself is pretty direct and has a strong voice, but in no way is it dictatorship. The Equal money system we speak about will be a system to do what is best for all. That means not to allow forms of abuse, that means not to allow corruption, not to allow destruction for profit or exploitation for profit. It means what it said: not allowing abuse, creating a world best for all. If you want to call that “social controls’” be my quest. You should take a look at this world and how mind control work, how people are forced to be blind consumers and followers of lust. And thats just 1 tiny example of the many. If you believe that no strict regimed economic, industrial and social controls are here right now, then you haven’t woken up or have been living on the wrong planet.

next part from: http://bellalive.multiply.com/journal/item/53/Desteni_Anti-Hate

Equality is the end of all cults. Equality is the principle that includes all Life. Equality means that the value of Life is Life.
Desteni is Anti-Fascist and Anti-MindControl. Desteni is Anti-Dictatorship and Anti-Religion. Desteni stand for the end of all separation and the end of all abuse.

Unlike any other group/school/movement, we realize that mind-control works from the inside-out as the conditioned perceptions, fears, desires, beliefs, imprinted onto us through ‘education’, media, culture = the things that create our ‘world-view’ and divide us, have us compete against each-other in fear of each-other.
Hence we apply & propose SELF-Honesty, SELF-Forgiveness, SELF-Will, SELF-Responsibility for Life as who we all really are — SELF-EMPOWERMENT for ALL

Abusers remain anonymous and claim they “speak out against cults & control systems”.
That is what we are in fact doing at Desteni, standing with our real names. We describe the inner and outer systems we are debunking in detail and show exactly how they work. We don’t hate, and we don’t attack, we don’t blame ‘others’. In self-responsibility, we educate ourselves and each-other; We wash our own brains from the fear and the power-greed that rules this world and stand for a Free World: NO GODS, NO MASTERS, NO SLAVES.

Desteni is actually Anti-Cult. Why?
Cultures as they exist exist in competition against each-other due to fear of each-other –
The common good, the common sense is sacrificed on the altar of specialty, profoundness, dominion.

Why is man too blind to see that deeds and decisions taken in the name of the ‘differences’ that separate us are like domino pieces waiting for the final countdown.
At Desteni we are people that see the insanity of all this and recognize that we, too, are responsible for what is here: the way we have existed within ourselves and with each-other has in fact perpetuated the world as we know it. Thus we have gotten together to apply and promote solutions of EQUALITY & ONENESS, based in the value of Life, because the value of Life is Life – beyond gender, race, culture, society, religion, ideology, belief.
At Desteni we are busy debunking the systems of separation that exist within and without, exposing ourselves and our world for all to see: we are all the same – yet, we are here, and no one is coming to save us. We have no choice but self-responsibility. We have no truth but self-honesty as life

Next from: http://darrylthomas.wordpress.com/2011/06/13/a-cult-of-their-own-the-ironic-fabrications-of-0rdo-aurora-templii/

A: Being described as a “centralized regime” sort of makes me pine for the old Cold War days. That Desteni is “centralized” is a fairy tale scare tactic, and false, as Desteni is a global group that is beginning to replicate all over the world-wide web of the collective unconscious.

That Desteni is a “regime” is only partly correct, as we are not authoritarian as the word is applied here, but we do promote a “regime” as giving a modality or way of doing things that brings equality to the world. What Zero fails to realize is that there are more “social controls” arrayed against human beings under this current system then there would ever be in an Equal Money society. But that doesn’t seem to bother them at all. The Equal Money and the universalism of Desteni isn’t that terribly concerning to them either. They have fears that what Desteni says about the religious and spiritual scam of humanity may be true, and this exercise of character assassination against members of the Desteni Group should be read with that in mind.

17.”It suppresses free speech and forcibly attempts to censor criticism and opposition.”

No it suppressed programmed abusive speech. Speech that places self intrest above everything else, speech that creates hate, distortion, lies, self dishonesty, exploitation, manipulation etc… Is that what you call free speech? What haters do is not simple criticism, it is spreading their assumptions as if it are truths, which it are not.
This so called “free speech” is a disguise and is not really free at all. For this you simply have to look within your life and this world and see how people develop certain opinions. Without self-honesty, you wont see that and will simply live out the way you have been designed. Which MAY include you standing on the street with “God hates fags” signs.

18. “Its extensive use of propaganda utilizes democratic procedures for an anti-democratic cause.”

Our cause is as democratic as can be, more then democracy today. What we say we mean, what we show in our blogs and videos we mean. We dont just do it “to spread an idea” or “to get people in line” or whatever of that … We do it because we care , because we really mean it, and because it is necessary for people to hear.
The change in this world wont come by itself, we will have to create it with whatever means possible. Including social networking, blogging, vlogging etc..

it is clear to all with any kind of functioning brain power that Democratic principals today are used to push undemocratic agendas that benefit the elites of this world at the cost of everyone else.

19. “Destonians condemn non-Destonians as less-than-inferior beings.”

We do not condemn non destonians as less than inferior beings. That is your assumption. Destonians are simply the people who participate within the desteni “process”, which is not a process out there, its not a magical thing, it is simply the group standing up together to change themselves, using tools that destnei has shared, walk together as a group to also change this system and stop the abuse. If we ban people , that means they have been abusing or spreading lies or don’t give a shit. Why should they care about being banned anyway, if they dislike us so much.

20. “Bernard Poolman’s comments on Jewish people suggest he is anti-Semitic. And Desteni is a fascist organisation”

Bernard has commented on every topic you can imagine. Does that make him anti everything? No, Bernard exposes things, he gives other perspectives, sometimes provokes things for people to face themselves etc… He is not anti semetic. We are also no fascist.
We stand for equality in this world, ending abuse on all levels. Bernard is not anti-jew or racist or any of that shit. If you would draw conclusions on Bernard video’s like that, you could as well say Bernard is anti everything, and that we are as well.
We are anti abuse, yes. And we are not afraid to expose all the topics and patterns that we have allowed. Without facing it and exposing it, we wont see it or take responsebility for it.
Also there are many members in desteni from different countries and different colors. There are “jews”, there are former muslims, christians, spiritualists, atheists etc…

21. “Its devotees say Desteni is all about equality and like nothing that has ever existed before. But Desteni uses the same exploitative methods of mind control found in mystical, religious, or quasi-religious thought-reform cults, and is a hierarchal organization, not a collective of equals. “

We don’t use mind control. We are all mind controlled since birth. This is not a secret, its quite obvious. Look at all cultures, all different beauty styles and how people sometimes blindly follow commercials, or their ego and opinions shaped by their culture. Will act out movies or tv shows, follow the religion they were raised within etc…

That some right now take more  charge of things, is simply because that is what they do, and have directed themselves to, because they have effectively placed themselves in that position. It doesn’t mean they are more or less. A child also has to learn from its father and mother and surroundings, does that make the child inferior? No. Is your teacher in school for example superior to you? No. The point is to become living equals, which is a process, especially in this world where we have lived out inequality since ages.
Some direct their lives fully, and may have a stronger voice and stand then those who remain in the background. Why would they have to hold back just because others are not willing to take full responsebility?
There are always starters of everything in this world. There will always be people who first did something, and further gave direction, and then others who develop themselves might do the same.

Next from: http://darrylthomas.wordpress.com/2011/06/13/a-cult-of-their-own-the-ironic-fabrications-of-0rdo-aurora-templii/

Ah, the “mind-control” bomb. I was wondering when we would get to this. A favorite smear used by the haters who have read too much into Margaret Singer’s book, “Cults In Our Midst.” Singer’s theories of “thought-reform” has been seized upon haters and critics as “proof” that Bernard Poolman has “hypnotized” and “brainwashed” thousands of Desteni members scattered around the world.

And yet, there appears to be no inclination from the haters and critics of Desteni to be concerned with the hypnotism and brainwashing performed by families, religions, politics, education and the media centers that dominate the mental environment of the human being. Apparently, the thoughts engineered by these centers need no attenuation or revision. We should never, ever question what has been told to us or consider that what we have previously believed is wrong. Beliefs should never be challenged. Especially those held by faceless, anonymous critics. If you do, you will be labeled a “cult.” It is a narrative based on  the claims of one scientist. Therefore, according to the narrative, it MUST be true.

22. “Poolman puts his own spin on it all and employs a less traditional phraseology, which his acolytes slavishly copy and repeat.

Maybe you have not properly listened to Bernard or others videos about new age and enlightenment and stuff, because many destonians and not just Bernard, have exposed the deceptiveness, in facts. Which are plain to see and realise for all. And if I have a question, I ask the question.

What is being shared by Desteni and Destonians is clear. I am not a native English speaker and I found the messages from the beginning very clear. Yes there are sometimes different words than what we are used to, or a longer explanation. My language or the way our world developped writing over time is not “holy”.
Sometimes we use different wording to expose things.
like: beLIEve
This sticks into peoples mind and it is cool to do. Believes are believes, not facts. People often raise them up as facts and create many lies who get carried on from generation to generation.

Slavishly copying is not part of what we do. Our messages are often the same, why? Because we stand as a group using self-honesty, and self-honesty leads to the same conclusions. Whatever we say or write about, is with our understanding, and not simply a copy.

It is time humanity becomes a group again, and not being forever devided.

Next part from: http://darrylthomas.wordpress.com/2011/06/13/a-cult-of-their-own-the-ironic-fabrications-of-0rdo-aurora-templii/

Bernard only relates what he’s found through difficult years of study and application. He doesn’t make anything up. He doesn’t lie. He is the one person that I have ever seen in my life who lives his words. I lived with him in his house for two years and the things that went on were both incredibly normal and extraordinary, and I listened to what Bernard and Andrea and Sunette said, interviewed them all. There is a ton we don’t share.

And I can say that I did not believe in the existence of demons until after Andrea told me of her story about Jack many years before she knew anything about Bernard Poolman, a story that is worthy of a movie. There is just too much that people do not know about this world for anyone to claim they “know it all,’ as critics say of Bernard. But let me tell you, unless you have walked in Bernard’s shoes, you have no business in pretending that you know anything about the man. Bernard is the last person who needs to defend himself.

23. “The Desteni group say Poolman and Sunette Spies possess abilities to function in both the interdimensional and the physical realms. They say Poolman is somehow not an individual or a personality. He is said to exist Here, bringing together Heaven and Earth in the physical, as if he were the incarnation of the Hermetic maxim, ‘as above, so below’. “

I never said that, and I wont. But what i do know is that Bernard works towards a change in this world and is dedicated to it 100 %. And with change, I mean towards equally, towards what is best for all.  There is no “bringing together heaven and earth” but CREATING heaven ON Earth.. We are on this earth, pretty amazing planet but we always seem to fuck it up. If we want heaven, we will have to change this hell. And thats our plan.

24. Desteni is a cult

From: http://bellalive.multiply.com/journal/item/53/Desteni_Anti-Hate

Anyone willing to see what is really going on and not just follow some ‘conspiracy theories’ based in fear, ignorance and deliberate indifference, will see that the anonymous attacks against Desteni, against equality, are based on nothing substantial: the users claiming Desteni to be a cult have had no interaction on the Desteni websites and forums or with the people that have been visibly participating at Desteni through recordings, documents, exchange forums and internet platforms. All of us participating in the message of Equality & Oneness for Man(to-be)kind, for One Earth, one home and the end of all abuse, have been sharing ourselves and our processes publicly, for years, and anyone is able to follow our processes and see how this group has emerged and developed and how we continue empowering ourselves to make an actual difference in this world.

The haters come with no interest in solutions, with alternatives, no suggestions – only empty accusations filled with blame, spitefulness, self-importance.
What is the profile of such hater? Where do they come from? Child-abuse? Discrimination? Bullying? Personal Failure? Obsession? Greed? Why are people simply attacking, and that is, attacking the One group that has made it its purpose to expose and stop all things that separate, abuse and exploit life! How come we are being named a cult, when we are standing up for the end of all cults, for the end of all cultism, the end of all separation?

Have people perhaps expected a proposal for an actual solution to this mess of a world to come served on a golden plate, all dressed beautifully and announced with angelic music? People react to us because we address the Unacceptable that has been accepted, the ‘hidden’ sin of the fathers that no one wants to take responsibility for; not seeing that if we don’t, we are passing it on to the children to come, that is ourselves, that is this earth, here. People react to us because we call things by their names, and we CAN, because we do it not only for what is ‘out there’, but firstly for what is ‘in here’, inherent within each-one as ‘human nature’.

Self-Responsibility, Self-Will, Self-Honesty – these are tools for self to stand Equal as One, as who each one is of Life.
Equality is the Key to the universe.
Will man be kind enough to be part of the universal family of Life?

This is our destenation.
We are here to change our desteni, and together we can change the desteni of mankind.

I stand for Equality and a New equal money system, for a World that is Life-Supportive for All – and that is why I stand with Desteni and support that ‎we need to Change the Economic System, the Way we Function with that which is Valuable, the Way we Support Life; The Way we Value Life, so that there is NO MORE Wars, Murder, Abuse, Deception.

The micro-cosmos that is ourselves as individuals constitutes the macro-cosmos we experience in our reality. Who will we Be within it all? Is Self-Determination possible? How can we break the spell that we’ve cast upon ourselves in spite of life?
Let us once and for all Stop abuse and lift the veils of mind-control that is the current world-system, the unified consciousness system.
Debunk the matrix within and without – Empower yourself to Stand-Up as Equal of Life.

Any one is able to Stand Up for Life and Participate in Changing the Desteni of the World.

That is Why we Are Here

25. Desteni tells their members to abandon their family

This is simply not true. In many video’s it has been shared to not seperate yourself from your family, but simply be self-honest within who you are when you are with them. I even live with my family. Family are human beings like anyone else. We do not seperate ourselves from others, we are taking responsebility for ourselves WITH others.

Next part from: http://breath-expression.blogspot.com/2011/05/bible-and-other-cults.html

Exclusive relationships, including if not especially family and friends, are often only functional as long as one submit to them and does not change. As soon as anything goes deeper, beyond the surface of things ‘as we know them’… it is perceived as a threat.

Everyday relationships that have a ‘personal’ face-to-face reality should be a place where all back-chat can be sorted out through intimate communication.

Why is this not happening? Why do we not learn to trust ourselves and each-other? Why do we treat our ‘loved ones’ like territory?
A person should not be ‘territory’ – Each grown-up person should be able to make their own decisions about what they stand for in life, who they will be/become and what kind of world they want to bring forth for the children to come.

We should stop projecting our own fears and desires upon our children – This has not made the world a better place, it has only passed on the ‘sins of the fathers’ that seem to loop into infinity unless something, unless someone Stop and stand-up to say ‘Till Here No Further.

How can the world really change, if all change is faced with fear…
How can the world really change if every one submit and submerge oneself to the way things have always been…
How can the world really change, if you and me, the building blocks of our world, do not change…

Family and friends is the system-unit we know best.

We are born of a system into a system. Family as the first and smallest system compartment is the group that defines ‘who we are’, give us ‘purpose and meaning’ based on tradition, culture, religion, belief, society/status, forefathers: the family determines what it is one must give ‘value’ to.
Individuals are seen as the ‘keepers’ of those values, and are in fact the ‘keepers’ of the system, this world as we know it. Because see – everywhere we look, we’ll see people fight over traditions, religions, beliefs; people kill each-other over different ‘values’, while the highest value – life itself as who we all really are – is disregarded.
It seems the very fight for one’s ‘own values’ is what serves the ‘forked tongue of the snake’: it feeds the ego and at the same time preserves the status quo – the world system as we know it.
The ‘big players’ of the world stage have long understood this principle, and rule the whole world by what is called ‘divide & conquer’: let them fight, let them blame each-other, let them be weak.
Obviously any significant change in the application of the average person’s separatist behaviour and egotistic ‘human nature’ is perceived as a threat to the ‘status quo’. To deal with this sudden ‘fear’, the system will seek ways of ‘control’ and will try and make the individual submit and submerge itself to ‘its grouping’ – until the individual is put back into ‘its place’.
As long as we fear each-other, as long as accept ourselves as inFearior: the system prevails.
At Desteni we understand/realize that a change in the world cannot come forth by itself; an actual change in the world cannot come forth without change of the individual through self-will to no longer be subject to the current and seemingly infinite system of separation, fear and abuse while history is repeating.
If we don’t stop history, history will stop us – and mankind as a whole will be facing its end while it’s busy fighting itself in a trivial war against each-other.
This current system of separation exists both within and without and is the consciousness we have all accepted and allowed to be ‘this existence’ as if it’s real, as if it’s who we really are; we call it ‘the ways of the world’ and ‘human nature’, while our consciousness, our mere existence not only undermines the value of life but actually harms that which we all have in common: Life.
We see it all around, and it’s time we stop.
26. About the expenses of Desteni farm, saying they are high and that Desteni makes their own food, and wonders why. “where are these expenses? Why are these expenses so high? Like let’s see what’s their cost, and why is a free society that they want to create, but this free society costs an awful lot of money –it’s not making too much sense.
Destenidoes not make their own food. Yes they have a little vegetable garden, but theydon’t have enough food grown to feed themselves thus they go to the shop everyweek with food for all the people there, which costs a lot, as well for theanimals. They have to pay the bills, also the shops they have to drive tobecause it is in the city and you cant get there walking or by bicycle. I beenthere so I know these things for a fact. They don’t get things handed to themfor free, none of us does. We all have to live and survive in this system. Thedifference is that what we direct ourselves to, is to change this systemthrough using it. The Equal money system is not a free society, because when wetransition to another way of living, we cannot expect all human being to treateach other as equals and live free and peaceful amongst each other. That is anice dream, but it is not a reality. The change we plan on creating, will takea lot of money and that is why we will take jobs to bring us money so that wecan set up all the things needed to make the change happen.So what does not make sense is people making assumptions based on no research,and then claiming that we want a free society with no money and that thereforewe should now not use money… That is simply unrealistic. Use your brain. Wewant to REALLY change things, not have a fantasy dream that won’t ever be ableto be realised.
27. “ there was somebody else within the groupthat’s reporting that Poolman goes to bed every night with at least 3 women -don’t know if that’s true or not. Having the conversation. It would be nice if somebody from Desteni sort of has the conversation.”
When I was at the farm I never saw anything like that. This is all hearsay placed in a way to make Bernard look like an evil man. Also it was not someone within our group that said that, it was an anonymous person. And anyone can claim to having been part of the group to try and back up their lies, that doesn’t make it true.Let’s say that this would happen, that like 2 man or 2 woman would have sex with a third. Why make a big deal out of it. People are hypocrits, they have sexual fantasies and have sex in all kinds of positions but then freak out about someone that might have sex with more than 1 person. As if suddenly, you are damn evil when you have sex with an extra person more. I guess the bonoboapes who have sex with everyone all the time are the incarnation of evil onearth. 😛

Anyway sex is a topic much discussed in many documents and videos from Desteni,so I suggest those who wonder, to check the info out.

28. “but I’ve always questioned – whyis love such an evil thing to you? “

Thereason why she was blocked, is pretty obvious in the way that she speaks, the assumptions she places as truths, spreading lies, wanting to defend opinions without truly looking at things such as “love” and what they stand for.

When we say “love is evil”, is when we point at the conditioned programmed love within this world. The so called love where people live in a bubble only caring for those they feel something towards, and don’t give a shit about others starving to death. Caring for real, is much harder then saying you care.

The love that requires jealousy to exists, that requires another as a possession,as a limited form to suite ones desires. Where one isn’t good enough whenhe/she looks a certain way etc… that is the love we call evil.

Love, as loving your neighbour as yourself, equal to all living beings, is not what we call evil.

29. “Some of it might be not truthful information,but the point is – why are people saying anything negative about a positive group? There always is a cause to why people start saying negative things, andin order to find truth, find out the cause of why people start saying negative things in the first place – something must be wrong.”

This is not true, people make negative things, conspiracy theories andbelieves about ANYTHING. Look at Jezus, what did they do to him? They tortured him and murdered him. People create these things about celebrities, about world leaders like what now happens with Obama, and which has happened with every president, they do it with tv personalities and even with things that are nothere such as aliens.

The person who made that video prides herself for reading a lot andknowing a lot, but it clearly shows that knowledge is useless, and becomesempty baggage. Without any self direction, no matter how much you know, it wont expand you as a being.

30.“We have free choice to decide what kind of music, pictures, and information’s we prefer to affect our senses. “

A large part of our music and picture and info preference is based on the way we have been raised and where we have grown up. A religious person will often dig religious gospel music and pictures and info, a spiritual person will often like spiritual pictures and music and info etc…

What we say is: investigate your music, picture and information preferences. Do not just blindly follow the way you have always been or have been raised. Often people follow their programmed emotions, like with religions for example. Which will direct their choices. You can hardly call that a free choice. Maybe the person thinks its free, but it isn’t really. Same  as a child born in a criminal environment, did not become a child criminal with his free choice. He became it with his programming.

We cannot call ourselves free unless we realise the way things work, the way the human mind gets programmed and shaped and directs us in all forms such as : jealousy, spitefulness, believing, insecurity, anger, lust etc…

So always do a self honesty check ,and see the consequences of who you are and if this can work in a world best for all. I mean literally, what is best for the common good, in facts. Thus spitefulness for example, is clearly not.

31. “Desteni aks to give up our own understandings and blindly accept and obey all what Bernard Poolman sais.”

As I explained, this is no free choice but programmed choice. Maybe people throw in the free speech bomb because it has been repeated so many times in history. And people just accept it without looking at it for themselves. Same as the Christian religious people do and did, with saying “you have free choice to choose for god”, and if you deny him withyour free choice, you go to hell.
Dont take things for normal just because this is what you are used to.

Desteni is not about giving up your own underderstanding and blindly obeying and accepting. That is the opposite of wha we stand for. We have to begin to develop our understanding, research, not just accept and justify the human abusive nature. Certainly not obeying and accepting. Because that is what you are
currently doing. Obeying and accepting the way you and others are programmed. To follow your feelings and emotions blindly, and your thoughts, thinking it is your free choice. It’s not. Born in various different countries , you would be another person, with other preferences and choices. Thus, it is up to each of
us, all from different countries, to be self honest and investigate life and who we are.

Freedom of mind is a myth, this is so obvious and everywhere, and maybe that is why some people fail to see it. Just trace back through your own history and see what MADE you you. And why you would accept this blindly.

Im going to give an example to make this clear.

A child is born in a racist family and network, who believe in white supremacy and use all kinds of info and believes to back this up. The child has been raised in this since his birth, and it shapes him. He copies the parents behaviour and words (thats what children do, they see and they copy). Also in the newspaper the child is faced with news about foreigners causing troubles, and all kinds of negative things, because that is what the media is all about. Showing the bad news and rarely the good. Then rotten apples always stick out, the good ones nto because they don’t cause trouble thus they are not in the center of attention. So this person grows up, and has racist ideas and thoughts. Also this who “racist” mini culture feels close to him because he grew up in it, its thus very familiar to him. When that person receives info, he will see this with his own programming and not look at the core of the issue, why people become criminals for example, or why they are racist.

Unless that person starts to QUESTION.

Same with a person being born in a family who is vegetarian for example, with respect for animals or in a meat eating family who say animals are inferior. It will all shape the person.

So my point is, to question, this world and yourself. Who you have become. That is what Desteni is also about. Which is the opposite of obeying and accepting. Without questioning, we will simply remain in our programmed bubble.

32. “Desteni members are in it for the money.”

most of the destonians that are very active right now, the core group, were all part of Desteni when money was not even involved. Many of us, even hated money, wanted a world without it, without the fucked up money system and abuse. So people, please keep your accusations for yourself en don’t throw it around like garbage.

We are here to change things, as repeated many times. We are here to truly work on a lasting change, not a little quick episode and then extinguish. We will use the system to change the system, which takes preperation, dedication and effort and time.

That we are in it for the money is the stupidest accusation ever. If we could do everything for free and still grow, that would be awesome, but that is not reality unfortunate. Desteni I Process course is a pretty recent start up and it wasn’t there in the beginning when most of us joined.

33. “Desteni is defensive and lashes out at those who challenge them.”

We don’t take bullshit. When there are people who want to argue about things already clear and true, we don’t spend time on that.  If we would argue with every single opinion out there we could do this all day long. We do answer peoples questions but not when they desperately want to hold on to their belief or opinion. Like we are not going to debate a Christian who tries to convert us. It reminds me of the
jehovas witnesses who sometimes come at my door. I tried to talk to them, asking them question and explaining what  I see in their religion, but they don’t reply on it. Like they don’t hear it. They will just keep telling about their belief, keep saying things from the bible, like they don’t even hear what your saying. And I know some haters are now going to think; yeah thats what you destonians do as well. But we don’t. We have changed a lot because we are able to listen, and to consider another way. That is why I changed a lot during my life and often left old opinions behind. Yet this doesn’t mean that we will actually keep listening to people who spread their believes  about our group. We decided now to reply with general anti hate videos because then we can present answers more globally and not scattered all over the youtube in comment space sections. There is not even 1 percent of defensiveness within me when I make
my videos.  By us presenting anti hate videos and explaining in general on our own channels, we can reach people who may be mislead by the haters videos, which already has happened a couple of times.

So questions are not bad, but when it comes to a continuous defense of a personal opinion or belief, then why should we keep arguing with that.

34. Destonians have faith in numbers and stand as one voice because they are to weak and depend on the direction of Bernard and Desteni. “

Not true.
With our without Desteni my goal within this world remains the same: ending abuse, bringing equality here.

With or without the group, I would still be as I am now and change myself to stop abusive patterns. I also started this before Desteni on my own . But I am very grateful for Desteni because they speed up things and realisations a lot for me. Things I might otherwise have never dared or simply be stuck in. Like I used to be much more shy and fearfull, and I learned to push myself through that. And now I talk much easier to people, and in result people also talk much easier to me. Also I realised lots of things about how my own mind works, and actually started to face myself. Before, I never did that because I saw my
programmed mind as who I was and like, I couldn’t be anything else. Im talking about the feelings I had or the thoughts. I blindly followed it. Many times, I remember laying in bed frustrated with myself because I saw my thoughts and found it so fake, whelming in self pity.

We don’t have faith in numbers, use your common sense, numbers matter in this world. The bigger the group, the bigger your voice. Thus we don’t have “faith” in it, we realise this because this is how our system works. The more we grow, the faster we can actually begin to change things, and the more people will have an impact. Through the internet but also through our every day life being in contact with others and simply sharing yourself. Simply things like what you saw on the news, and then beginning to talk about the money system, and this gets people to think. Thats what I do in my own personal life. Or for example
about make up and insecurity etc… So many things how you can reach others while simply expressing yourself in common sense and how you live and what youve realised. This is what I also learned to do because before I was afraid of opening up and being “different “. But now I speak out about these things to people.

35. “I see too much pride and ego in Destonians.”

Always check if what you see is not simply a belief you have about others. Because many times in my life I thought things about others which were not true. Like I really saw people disliking me, but when it came down to it, they actually really liked me. But I simply created that belief about them in my own mind
based on my insecurities.

So first check for that.
And to add to this: we are all people in our individual process as well. We are not superhumans. We are destonians because we value life and learn to direct ourselves instead of simply doing what we are programmed to do, and because we stand together to bring forth another world. We all are in a process of
changing ourselves. So ego may sometimes come up for example, and part of our process is to stop this when we notice it. It doesn’t mean though that because you think it sometimes, that it is actually true. Every one of us have to check this for themselves.

36.

That is
not true. People who stand with our group, are the people who want to truly
change this system and work on themselves and be self honest. If someone does
not want them, they have no place in our group. Because that is what our group
is about. Like a meat eater is not going to be part of a vegetarian group, or a
racist is not going to be part of an anti racism group.

The first priority is on bringing people together who will actually do things
to change this system, starting with themselves. That is what we do right now.

36. “People who don’t fit in are discarded out of the group.”

People who stand with our group, are the people who want to truly change this system and work on themselves and be self honest. If someone does not want them, they have no place in our group. Because that is what our group is about. Like a meat eater is not going to be part of a vegetarian group, or a racist is not going to be part of an anti racism group.

The first priority is on bringing people together who will actually do things to change this system, starting with themselves. That is what we do right now.

37. “we should be pro-active in changing our world, but not spend our every breath obsessed with ‘the cause’. Kinda defeats the purpose of ‘being here’ and actually enjoying life when your psychoanalyzing yourself to infinity. So you won’t be ‘living in the mind’, but you are through a focused fixation, while your limiting yourself to any growth to new ideas, other than what’s being fed to you by Desteni.”

We don’t obsess with ‘”the cause”,the process of self honesty is simply part of who you are in your every day life. As self direction, compared to blindly following. If you want to change the world, start with yourself. And no this is not obsession. This is living your life. Else you can call everything an obsessions. Being “here” means directing yourself, which required self honesty. Thats how you also enjoy life, to learn to truly enjoy life often times. Stopping fears and limitations. It is not psychoanalyzing to infinity. And we require some true introspection. You rather walk around doing things blindly as how your programmed? If that makes you feel good, and you call it “njoying life” then that is pretty fucked up. Then enjoying life consists of robotic repeatance and allowing abuse. Maybe fun for you, but not for the outflow of this existence. Its like people who for example have lots of money and do lots of fun things with it and buy lots of stuff and say they love living life. Not realising how they are supporting an abusive system, only caring for themselves and in many cases buy products tested on animals o r made by sweatshop workers.

And also, more and more people get depressed these days. I often was before finding out the Desteni forums. Because I didn’t knew how to direct myself and gave my thoughts the upper hand.

If we would “limit our growth to new ideas”, we would never change and always do the same. We don’t. We remain with things that work and are necessary, and we change to things that we find also work or work better. Same in our own life, if we find out patterns which are limiting or abusive, we stop them. We also got part of Desteni  because we were able to listen to new ideas. That we were able to listen to a girl who breaths funny on youtube talking as if she has multiple personalities. We were able to hear these new sharing and ideas and actually consider what was being shared, and consider another way of being.

38. “I’m sure the Desteni members would be a little more socially active amongst the location
around them…,[South Africa] than be held up in such a disclosed spot.”

To change this world, those with money will have to do it and are right now in the best position to infiltrate the system and change it, and use their money to the best for all. Thats what we  plan to do. We cannot support poor people all over the world right now, we don’t have money for it and it will keep us stuck in charity. We want to stop the things that create the poverty in the first place, and those who can do this are often people from richer parts of the world. We are not a charity organisations. However I went to demonstrations and I am also a vegetarian and don’t use any animal tested products. Yet I realise, that without changing this system, that abuse will always keep existing and that is why I also, together with that, work on a change for this system. But I mean you cant go to poor people in Africa for example and expect them to help create the change when they cant even feed themselves, when the system constantly deprives them. And it will never stop unless people stand up to actually work on stopping the deprivation.

 

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